Oklahoma City Forum on Immigration

On June 25, 2006, Oklahoma City First Church of the Nazarene (my home church) hosted a community-wide forum on the Christian response to the issue of immigration.  Around 400 people attended, and a panel of seven speakers presented opening statements and then fielded questions submitted in writing by the audience.  (L-R: Rex Friend, Shirley Cox, Rep. Gary Banz, Rev. Gabriella Rodriguez, Rep. Kevin Calvey, Kelly Basey, Pat Fennell)

The Immigration Forum Panel included the following members:

Rex Friend - a Quaker who practices immigration law and has been an outspoken activist and organizer of compaigns for non-violence and social justice including abolishing the death penalty and the rights of immigrants

Shirley Cox - Director of Social Action at Catholic Charities in Oklahoma City for the past nine years, also practices immigration law and works as an activist for issues such as social justice, right to life, welfare reform, euthanasia, the death penalty, and immigration.

Rep. Gary Banz - serves District 101 in the Oklahoma House of Representatives (vice chair of the Veterans and Military Affairs Committee), also an Army veteran, retired public school teacher, and former member of the Oklahoma County Election Board and Rose State College Board of Regents

Gabriela Rodriguez - ordained minister and pastor of Davina Trinidad church, sponsored by Trinity Church of the Nazarene in Oklahoma City

Rep. Kevin Calvey - chair of the Revenue and Taxation committee, also a member of the Oklahoma National Guard and very active in his church community where he has taught Confirmation Class for ten years

Kelly Basey - served as Oklahoma County Assistant District Attorney for twelve years, during that time she helped to found the Oklahoma Mental Health Court; she currently serves on the Girl Scouts board of directors and practices immigration law with an Oklahoma City law firm

Pat Fennell - native of Quito, Ecuador, served as former state president of the National Association of Social Workers, earning the award for State Social Worker of the Year in 1992; also serves on the Oklahoma State Human Rights Commission and is the founder and Executive Director of the Latino Community Development Agency in Oklahoma City

My notes from the Forum, as well as some additional thoughts, are in the extended section.  This is not a transcript of the event; rather it is paraphrased notes taken during conversation.  Feel free to post comments about the points made by the forum panelists or about my thoughts regarding immigration issues.

(I also blogged a race relations forum in January.  My summary of that forum and related comments are here.)

Opening statements:

Rex: We should approach this discussion understanding that we will all be together in heaven some day.  We must always be aware of the dignity of others because we are all God's children. People do not leave their homes because it is an easy thing to do.  It is usually because their situation seems hopeless and they have little or no dignity left.

Shirley:  Re-emphasize respect for dignity.  Current laws do not reflect dignity.  Migrants leave reluctantly and face a multitude of risks and hardships.  Leaving is not their first choice, it is their last chance.  We cannot solve our current immigration problems by deporting 11 million people.  We must be open to diversity of culture and uniqueness of the gifts each of us brings.

Gary: As an elected official I have heard from a large number of constituents.  Not a new issue.  We've been dealing with this since colonial days when Germans first migrated to the 13 colonies.  Church response - grace, redemption.  Share God's salvation and take care of the needy.  Government's role derived from the Declaration of Independence - all created equal, with certain inalienable rights.  All residents have the right to be treated equitably, and that includes citizens and immigrants.  Government roles include national security, rule of law, economics, immigration policy.

Gabriela: Parents were born in Mexico, then immigrated to US; I  was born in US.  Had more opportunities than my friends because I was a citizen.  My church congregation is mostly undocumented, but wonderful people.  Many want to be legal, but INS makes it difficult.  Again, people come to the US because life is hard and unsatisfactory.  Bible commands us to welcome the stranger. (Deuteronomy 10:18-20)

Kevin: There is a sharp distinction between legal and illegal.  Deuteronomy passage was meant to apply to people who immigrate legally or who attempted to comply with the law of the land.  Violation of immigration law means you are a criminal.  First priority is to control border - danger from al-Qaeda, terrorists.  Undocumented immigrants in this country should receive no public benefits.  Those who hire undocumented immigrants must be punished.  No amnesty or guest worker programs -these are unfair to legal immigrants.  Should not give automatic citizenship to people born in US when parents are in this country illegally.  What affect does illegal immigration have on the home countries of the immigrants?  Are we enabling corruption in foreign countries?

Kelly: I've worked in the Oklahoma County DA's office for 12 years, but have only been doing immigration law for past 2 months.  I've learned a lot!  The migration patterns of the world community are well known.  Mexico to US is not the only one.  Migration between cultures and nations has occurred throughout history.  "Suction" at US southern border is because of the combination of lax US law enforcement, poverty in Mexico, and demand for labor in US.  If things weren't really bad in other nations, people would not leave everything they own in order to come to a completely foreign land.  Need for change in laws:  1.  Public policy needs to be made with moral dimensions, moral dignity of each person.  2. How to laws affect family unit?  Separation of family is negative 3.  Administrative law is broken when someone crosses border illegally.  Should be held accountable for this, but is deportation the right punishment for an administrative crime?  4.  Language unifies, organizes, and creates efficient society.

Pat Fennell:  Had previous opportunity to work at the Federal Reserve Bank.  Had opportunity to ask Alan Greenspan his opinion on immigration problems.  Greenspan's answer: he had nothing to do with immigration, but if he did, he would advocate open borders.  Undocumented immigrants do pay taxes - social security, sales taxes, up to $7 billion annually, yet they do not qualify for retirement plans, Social Security, Medicare, WIC assistance, food stamps.  They definitely take jobs that other people do not want.  If undocumented were to disappear, groceries would triple in price, construction projects would be halted, hotels and motels would close.  We can enhance border security without diminishing economy and society.
________________________________

QUESTION 1: What does it cost to obtain a legal immigration visa?

Shirley - Hard to say because there are many different ways to enter legally.  Average probably is $200 to $300 to thousands.  May also include costs of fines or penalties.  How are people prevented from entering?  Applying for permanent visas and then becoming naturalized can take decades.  Cost really may be time, not money.  People can come up with money if they need to. 

QUESTION 2: If undocumented immigrants are ineligible for public assistance, then why do we see figures related to costs of undocumented immigrants to our government?

Kevin - "Ineligibility" claims are extremely misleading.  Children born while parents are in the US are eligible for US public school and public health care.  Sales taxes do not come close to cover costs imposed by undocumented immigrants.  Deportation of undocumented immigrants would actually save money by saving expenses.  We need to enforce laws and cannot be lax just because family units are in jeopardy.  For example, prison breaks up families, but it is necessary.

QUESTION 3: How can the US work to solve the problems in other countries that result in their citizens wanting to leave?

Pat - Reply to Kevin.  Global economy means that deportation will not yield an economic benefit.  Deporting undocumented workers will drastically increase productivity cost, which makes us unable to compete in the global economy.  Countries in southern hemisphere are looking at how US treats immigrants.  We need to be responsible for the economic impact we have on other countries by depleting their natural resources. US companies increase their profits by building factories overseas, depleting foreign resources, and not paying wages at American level.  US has also previously supported repressive dictatorships in third world nations.  US can't change other countries, but we should be aware of what US has done in the past that has fomented their problems.

QUESTION 4: How should the contemporary church minister to the "sojourner"?

Gabriela - Love them, and do not dwell on whether they are "legal" or "illegal," or whether they should leave or stay.  If my parents had never come to US, they would never have heard the Gospel.  Need to focus on reaching people with the Gospel.  This is an important evangelism opportunity. 

Gary Banz - US has 6-8% of world's population.  We are the envy of the world, the desired place to be.  Our economy and freedoms are the result of our government and economic systems.  Our country works very well now, but we cannot become home to a significantly larger percentage of the world's population without better systems in place.  Disrespect for law sets terrible example for everyone.  Promises of amnesty and lax law enforcement encourage illegal immigration.  Employers must be held responsible too.  Irony - the blessings desired by immigrants are based entirely on rule of law.

Gabriela - Romans 13 implores us to submit to governing authorities.  It is important to obey and enforce laws, but our laws must answer to God's higher law.  People must be treated with dignity because we are all made in God's image.

QUESTION 5: We want immigrants to enter legally, yet INS is slow, inefficient, and discriminatory.  How can we make the INS work fairly and efficiently?

Rex - It takes $20,000 to get someone supported. So it would cost $70 billion to deport everyone. Much better ways to spend that much money, and people wouldn't support a tax increase to raise the money.  INS has to rethink how it issues visas - very discriminatory.    INS biases come from Congress.  Professional and highly educated immigrants have visas readily available.  Unskilled workers/laborers have the most backlog.  Mistake to focus all our efforts on US/Mexico border; terrorists already in Canada.  It is too easy for terrorists to be lost among 12 million undocumented aliens.  Maybe national ID for undocumented aliens would help.

Gary - Securing the border is first step.  40% of  "illegals" fall in that category because they have overstayed their visas.  We should have a better way to close those kinds of loopholes.

Kevin - Streamline/cheapen the deportation process.  Crack down on employers who hire undocumented workers and limit public benefits, and the undocumented will leave.  Compare the US and Mexican immigration policy; Mexico is far more restrictive than America.  We are very close to open borders when compared to other nations.  We did not cause the internal political or economic problems in other nations.  A market based economy and respect for the rule of law are key things for promoting prosperity in other nations.  We need to promote these things and fight corruption.  And we are far more efficient with national resources than other nations.  We need to stop enabling other nations to rid themselves of their poor .

Pat - Who is the villain?  Undocumented?  Employers are villains too.  As a nation, our policies are not always as kind as our people.  Jobs will always be magnets to people looking for work.  Perhaps employers should be stigmatized as well as workers.  It should not take 20 years for someone to get a permanent visa.  Educated workers should not be more favored.   

QUESTION 6: For Kelly - have you become more compassionate towards undocumented aliens as a result of your experience in immigration law?

Kelly - Yes, absolutely.  INS backlog is awful.  Extremely difficult for people to come here legally, and this must be changed.  The rule of law must be over-riding principle, but at the same time the punishment has to fit the crime.  What should punishment be for coming here illegally?  I don't believe that deportation is the answer.

CLOSING COMMENT FROM PASTOR STEVE GREEN:

No doubt that the USA is the best place in the world to live and raise a family.  But as great is it is, America will come and go.  That is a fact.  Yet Kingdom of God is forever.  It is the only - not the best - but only hope for this world.

____________________________________________

My thoughts ...

With respect to immigration, the United States currently has two pressing problems:

• The US/Canada and US/Mexico borders are poorly guarded.  We know that terrorists are still actively planning strikes within the United States, and a poorly-guarded border makes their evil work easier.

• Right now there are perhaps 12 million aliens who are in America "illegally," either as a result of having an expired visa or through deliberate efforts to enter our country without ever obtaining a visa.  For numerous social, political, and economic reasons it is impractical to round up and deport that many people.  How should those people be held accountable for violating US immigration law?  And for those aliens who want to stay here, how should we go about the process of assimilating them into American culture?

The Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) is inefficient and unfairly discriminatory.  We currently have no good system in place to handle the number of immigrants – particularly those from Mexico – who are entering this nation each year.  Our systems of assimilation have broken down as well.  Traditional methods of assimilation such as English language immersion are now derided as outdated and racist.  And I also sense that a growing number of people who are disenchanted with traditional American culture (religion, politics, social values) are perhaps seeking to use a large influx of immigrants as a way to "rebuild" America.  That concerns me, because rebuilding our nation the wrong way will cause many more of us to suffer.

Failing to assimilate immigrants is an immoral practice because it perpetually keeps them "outsiders."  They are often targeted for discrimination and exploitation, both by the US labor market and by politicians.  The Bible very clearly instructs us that the poor and the marginalized in our society -- widows, orphans, and aliens or sojourners -- are to be treated compassionately.    We are to follow the example of Christ and minister to everyone as individuals, regardless of their legal or social standing.  I also believe that if the Church fails to involve itself in the lives of immigrants, we are missing an important opportunity for evangelism.

There is no other nation that offers the blessings and benefits of the United States, and there is no other nation in which I would want to live.  I'm proud to be an American.  And I'm concerned about the possibility of anything -- immigration or otherwise -- altering the basic identity of our nation.  All of the things that make America great do depend on the rule of law, and I believe that we need to enforce our laws if we want to keep America great.

But at the same time I cannot ignore the simple fact that the Kingdom of God transcends the boundaries of nations.  As Christians, placing nationalism or patriotism before the Kingdom is an error.  I am not advocating post-nationalism or a secularist "new world order."  But as Pastor Green pointed out, we should all understand that the days of United States of America are finite, but the Kingdom of God is eternal.  And that understanding is what should determine our priorities.

Further reading:

From my friend Rev. Mark Daniels: How Christians Might Think About The Immigration Issue

• Part 1: Enforcing The Rule Of Law

• Part 2: Justice

• Part 3: Biblical Understanding of the Alien

• Part 4: Final Thoughts

Comments

[mohamoud]

My name is Mohamoud I am from a Somalia boy with a bad luck living in Mogadishu I am an orphan , born 1984
My father and elder brother were killed by militias on 1994. There were killed inside the house. Unfortunately my Mum couldn’t live longer she died as a result a shook from the family mascara. We could hardly continue our life because of the death of the father and the elder brother who used to care for our life .
Also my elder sister was raped to death on 1995. and my younger brother was killed because he was in love with a girl from a militia family in 2005, further more we are from a clam that is the most humiliated in Somalia ( BOON).
Though we own a house in Mogadishu, we don’t live in our house, because some militia live there, and we don’t have the a ability to force them out of the house.
We don’t have cousins from my dad but cousins from my mum live in the countryside far from Mogadishu and we don’t usually contact each other and they don’t have the ability to help us.
I n my educational background, I only left a high school and not attended any school anymore , I don’t have good skills to work.
I have never gotten the support of my family either happiness or something else.
I now live with my two younger brothers and one younger sister
We faced lack of motion, education family, money, we are looking forward to your prompt answer to help us. Live better than where we live today

[dolly]

Widespread reports of vanishing employees and schoolchildren suggest thousands of illegal immigrants have left Oklahoma for neighboring states or their native countries. Cotton gins, hotels and home builders have lost workers. Restaurant and grocery store owners complain of fewer customers. Some businesses and lawmakers are warning that the economic effects will hit consumers hard.
----------------
Dolly

Oklahoma Treatment Centers